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	<title>Comments on: Common Spoken Errors Become Written Errors</title>
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	<link>http://blog.gordaen.com/2006/10/21/common-spoken-errors-become-written-errors/</link>
	<description>Ramblings about art, education, Linux and a lot more</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 00:05:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://blog.gordaen.com/2006/10/21/common-spoken-errors-become-written-errors/#comment-1581</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Dec 2006 04:54:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.gordaen.com/2006/10/21/common-spoken-errors-become-written-errors/#comment-1581</guid>
		<description>According to Merriam-Webster's Concise Dictionary of English Usage, "aren't I" first appeared in writing in the early 20th century. It's a British spelling pronunciation for "an't I", which used to be a widespread form. British speakers don't pronounce the "r", but American writers didn't understand the reason for the spelling and saw "aren't I" as completely incorrect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>According to Merriam-Webster&#8217;s Concise Dictionary of English Usage, &#8220;aren&#8217;t I&#8221; first appeared in writing in the early 20th century. It&#8217;s a British spelling pronunciation for &#8220;an&#8217;t I&#8221;, which used to be a widespread form. British speakers don&#8217;t pronounce the &#8220;r&#8221;, but American writers didn&#8217;t understand the reason for the spelling and saw &#8220;aren&#8217;t I&#8221; as completely incorrect.</p>
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		<title>By: Gordaen</title>
		<link>http://blog.gordaen.com/2006/10/21/common-spoken-errors-become-written-errors/#comment-465</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordaen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Nov 2006 03:45:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.gordaen.com/2006/10/21/common-spoken-errors-become-written-errors/#comment-465</guid>
		<description>Well, you can go back to what I said before about the pronunciation: "Rather than regarding it as an 'error,' you could call it a linguistic change..."  Either way, the point is more that the pronunciation "kÃŠÅ dv" is sometimes written as "could of," which is incorrect, than whether that pronunciation is correct.  Whether you want to call "kÃŠÅ dv" "incorrect," "informal," or "just right" depends on your stance.  Is it correct because a large number of people do it?  Does that mean saying "like" every few words is correct or adding "you know" at the end of each phrase is correct?  Is saying "um" every few words correct in a speech?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, you can go back to what I said before about the pronunciation: &#8220;Rather than regarding it as an &#8216;error,&#8217; you could call it a linguistic change&#8230;&#8221;  Either way, the point is more that the pronunciation &#8220;kÃŠÅ dv&#8221; is sometimes written as &#8220;could of,&#8221; which is incorrect, than whether that pronunciation is correct.  Whether you want to call &#8220;kÃŠÅ dv&#8221; &#8220;incorrect,&#8221; &#8220;informal,&#8221; or &#8220;just right&#8221; depends on your stance.  Is it correct because a large number of people do it?  Does that mean saying &#8220;like&#8221; every few words is correct or adding &#8220;you know&#8221; at the end of each phrase is correct?  Is saying &#8220;um&#8221; every few words correct in a speech?</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://blog.gordaen.com/2006/10/21/common-spoken-errors-become-written-errors/#comment-434</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Nov 2006 20:45:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.gordaen.com/2006/10/21/common-spoken-errors-become-written-errors/#comment-434</guid>
		<description>Of course I'm talking about native speakers. The native speaker population makes the rules.

You're right that if students were explicitly taught about auxillary verbs they might not write "could of". But it seemed to me that you were confusing this sensible advice with the mistaken belief that native speakers are not pronouncing "have" correctly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course I&#8217;m talking about native speakers. The native speaker population makes the rules.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re right that if students were explicitly taught about auxillary verbs they might not write &#8220;could of&#8221;. But it seemed to me that you were confusing this sensible advice with the mistaken belief that native speakers are not pronouncing &#8220;have&#8221; correctly.</p>
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		<title>By: Gordaen</title>
		<link>http://blog.gordaen.com/2006/10/21/common-spoken-errors-become-written-errors/#comment-399</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordaen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Nov 2006 01:51:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.gordaen.com/2006/10/21/common-spoken-errors-become-written-errors/#comment-399</guid>
		<description>My point in "John/Joan" is that someone who doesn't know that name specifically and is just learning English might pronounce it incorrectly ("oh" being pronounced like the "oa" in "Joan").  When you say "everyone" pronounces "could have" a certain way, you mean people who are very familiar with the language.  It's also context-based.  If you were testifying in court and the prosecutor asked, "Could you or could you not have done X."  A reply of "I could have" would likely be properly articulated.  Do you ever say "...could not Ã‰â„¢ done that..." or "...could you Ã‰â„¢ done that...?"  Two sentences together ("I could.  Of the three people, I was the only one who could.") can make the distinction more important (thus, we would probably be sure to pause between sentences, where other cases would not require as long of a pause).

My point isn't that people are using "have" where they should use "of," but that they are writing "could of" rather than "could have."  If they truly understood the difference, they wouldn't be doing it.  I'm sure if you search for "could of" in quotes in Google or another search engine you'll see many pages explaining that it is incorrect to write, but also many people actually writing it that way.

You say that it "makes sense" and that they mean "have" but write "of."  That's partly hitting on the point.  People think they hear "of" when they are hearing a less articulated version of "have."  Writing "of" means they don't understand that it is incorrect.  It's similar to people writing "half to" as in "I have to do X."  Fortunately, that's a much less common mistake and, I think, illustrates that in the "have to" case, people realize the function "have" is playing in the sentence.  If people fully understood that it is an auxiliary verb, these two mistakes would be closer to equally frequent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My point in &#8220;John/Joan&#8221; is that someone who doesn&#8217;t know that name specifically and is just learning English might pronounce it incorrectly (&#8221;oh&#8221; being pronounced like the &#8220;oa&#8221; in &#8220;Joan&#8221;).  When you say &#8220;everyone&#8221; pronounces &#8220;could have&#8221; a certain way, you mean people who are very familiar with the language.  It&#8217;s also context-based.  If you were testifying in court and the prosecutor asked, &#8220;Could you or could you not have done X.&#8221;  A reply of &#8220;I could have&#8221; would likely be properly articulated.  Do you ever say &#8220;&#8230;could not Ã‰â„¢ done that&#8230;&#8221; or &#8220;&#8230;could you Ã‰â„¢ done that&#8230;?&#8221;  Two sentences together (&#8221;I could.  Of the three people, I was the only one who could.&#8221;) can make the distinction more important (thus, we would probably be sure to pause between sentences, where other cases would not require as long of a pause).</p>
<p>My point isn&#8217;t that people are using &#8220;have&#8221; where they should use &#8220;of,&#8221; but that they are writing &#8220;could of&#8221; rather than &#8220;could have.&#8221;  If they truly understood the difference, they wouldn&#8217;t be doing it.  I&#8217;m sure if you search for &#8220;could of&#8221; in quotes in Google or another search engine you&#8217;ll see many pages explaining that it is incorrect to write, but also many people actually writing it that way.</p>
<p>You say that it &#8220;makes sense&#8221; and that they mean &#8220;have&#8221; but write &#8220;of.&#8221;  That&#8217;s partly hitting on the point.  People think they hear &#8220;of&#8221; when they are hearing a less articulated version of &#8220;have.&#8221;  Writing &#8220;of&#8221; means they don&#8217;t understand that it is incorrect.  It&#8217;s similar to people writing &#8220;half to&#8221; as in &#8220;I have to do X.&#8221;  Fortunately, that&#8217;s a much less common mistake and, I think, illustrates that in the &#8220;have to&#8221; case, people realize the function &#8220;have&#8221; is playing in the sentence.  If people fully understood that it is an auxiliary verb, these two mistakes would be closer to equally frequent.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://blog.gordaen.com/2006/10/21/common-spoken-errors-become-written-errors/#comment-389</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Nov 2006 15:50:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.gordaen.com/2006/10/21/common-spoken-errors-become-written-errors/#comment-389</guid>
		<description>What makes a "correct" usage is quite complicated. Two factors that make something correct is whether its intended audience comprehends it, and whether it conforms to the norms of usage. Pronouncing my name like "Joan" is incorrect because that is not how speakers pronounce "John". If someone calls me "Joan" I might not understand. Furthermore, no one is going to call me "Joan" in the first place for those reasons, so it doesn't make sense to compare this to [kÃŠÅ dv], which people actually do say.

On the other hand, everyone pronounces "could have" as [kÃŠÅ dv] or [kÃŠÅ dÃ‰â„¢] in normal speech. This is what people expect to hear, and it is what people say. It conforms to the norms of usage, and there is no breakdown in communication.

You seem to be saying that when people write "could of" or say [kÃŠÅ dv], they don't actually mean "could have," they mean "could of." This is a strange thing to say. I don't think anyone is confused about the usage of the preposition "of" and the auxillary verb "have". Everyone knows how they are used. If they didn't, they might say or write things like "the meaning have life" or "the end have the day", when they mean "of", and I don't think anyone does that.

What's happening is that they're writing "of" instead of "have" in this specific environment, and this makes sense, since "have" in this environment is pronounced almost exactly like "of". I'm not saying that makes it right, I'm just saying that it's a trivial respelling based on pronunciation, and not the result of confusion over verbs and prepositions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What makes a &#8220;correct&#8221; usage is quite complicated. Two factors that make something correct is whether its intended audience comprehends it, and whether it conforms to the norms of usage. Pronouncing my name like &#8220;Joan&#8221; is incorrect because that is not how speakers pronounce &#8220;John&#8221;. If someone calls me &#8220;Joan&#8221; I might not understand. Furthermore, no one is going to call me &#8220;Joan&#8221; in the first place for those reasons, so it doesn&#8217;t make sense to compare this to [kÃŠÅ dv], which people actually do say.</p>
<p>On the other hand, everyone pronounces &#8220;could have&#8221; as [kÃŠÅ dv] or [kÃŠÅ dÃ‰â„¢] in normal speech. This is what people expect to hear, and it is what people say. It conforms to the norms of usage, and there is no breakdown in communication.</p>
<p>You seem to be saying that when people write &#8220;could of&#8221; or say [kÃŠÅ dv], they don&#8217;t actually mean &#8220;could have,&#8221; they mean &#8220;could of.&#8221; This is a strange thing to say. I don&#8217;t think anyone is confused about the usage of the preposition &#8220;of&#8221; and the auxillary verb &#8220;have&#8221;. Everyone knows how they are used. If they didn&#8217;t, they might say or write things like &#8220;the meaning have life&#8221; or &#8220;the end have the day&#8221;, when they mean &#8220;of&#8221;, and I don&#8217;t think anyone does that.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s happening is that they&#8217;re writing &#8220;of&#8221; instead of &#8220;have&#8221; in this specific environment, and this makes sense, since &#8220;have&#8221; in this environment is pronounced almost exactly like &#8220;of&#8221;. I&#8217;m not saying that makes it right, I&#8217;m just saying that it&#8217;s a trivial respelling based on pronunciation, and not the result of confusion over verbs and prepositions.</p>
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		<title>By: Gordaen</title>
		<link>http://blog.gordaen.com/2006/10/21/common-spoken-errors-become-written-errors/#comment-379</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordaen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Nov 2006 01:22:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.gordaen.com/2006/10/21/common-spoken-errors-become-written-errors/#comment-379</guid>
		<description>Well, let me ask you this:  At what point is pronunciation incorrect?  If someone were to pronounce your name like "Joan," would you correct that person?  That's less of a change than "have" to "of" is.

The other point is that if people are writing it as "could of" that means when they are pronouncing it, they don't mean "could have" they mean "could of."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, let me ask you this:  At what point is pronunciation incorrect?  If someone were to pronounce your name like &#8220;Joan,&#8221; would you correct that person?  That&#8217;s less of a change than &#8220;have&#8221; to &#8220;of&#8221; is.</p>
<p>The other point is that if people are writing it as &#8220;could of&#8221; that means when they are pronouncing it, they don&#8217;t mean &#8220;could have&#8221; they mean &#8220;could of.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://blog.gordaen.com/2006/10/21/common-spoken-errors-become-written-errors/#comment-374</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Oct 2006 23:28:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.gordaen.com/2006/10/21/common-spoken-errors-become-written-errors/#comment-374</guid>
		<description>ok, you do say it's normal, but you claim it's not formal. I'm not convinced that [kÃŠÅ dv] or [kÃŠÅ dÃ‰â„¢] are not used in formal speech. But I'm not familiar with the evidence.

In any case, my point is: YouÃ¢â‚¬â„¢re right that Ã¢â‚¬Å“could ofÃ¢â‚¬Â is a mistake, but itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s a mistake to say that the spelling is wrong because the pronunciation is wrong - thereÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s nothing wrong with the pronunciation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ok, you do say it&#8217;s normal, but you claim it&#8217;s not formal. I&#8217;m not convinced that [kÃŠÅ dv] or [kÃŠÅ dÃ‰â„¢] are not used in formal speech. But I&#8217;m not familiar with the evidence.</p>
<p>In any case, my point is: YouÃ¢â‚¬â„¢re right that Ã¢â‚¬Å“could ofÃ¢â‚¬Â is a mistake, but itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s a mistake to say that the spelling is wrong because the pronunciation is wrong - thereÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s nothing wrong with the pronunciation.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://blog.gordaen.com/2006/10/21/common-spoken-errors-become-written-errors/#comment-373</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Oct 2006 23:23:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.gordaen.com/2006/10/21/common-spoken-errors-become-written-errors/#comment-373</guid>
		<description>gentry?

You're right that "could of" is a mistake, but it's a mistake to say that the spelling is wrong because the pronunciation is wrong - there's nothing wrong with the pronunciation.

You still haven't provided any evidence as to why [kÃŠÅ dv] or [kÃŠÅ dÃ‰â„¢] are anything other than completely normal.

We shouldn't rely on spelling as a guide to pronunciation. "have" is sometimes [hÃƒÂ¦v] but it's very often [Ã‰â„¢] or [v], even in careful pronunciation - in my experience.

eg the conjuction "that" is almost always pronounced [ÃƒÂ°Ã‰â„¢t], very seldom [ÃƒÂ°ÃƒÂ¦t]. [ÃƒÂ°ÃƒÂ¦t] is the demonstrative, as in "that book is mine."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>gentry?</p>
<p>You&#8217;re right that &#8220;could of&#8221; is a mistake, but it&#8217;s a mistake to say that the spelling is wrong because the pronunciation is wrong - there&#8217;s nothing wrong with the pronunciation.</p>
<p>You still haven&#8217;t provided any evidence as to why [kÃŠÅ dv] or [kÃŠÅ dÃ‰â„¢] are anything other than completely normal.</p>
<p>We shouldn&#8217;t rely on spelling as a guide to pronunciation. &#8220;have&#8221; is sometimes [hÃƒÂ¦v] but it&#8217;s very often [Ã‰â„¢] or [v], even in careful pronunciation - in my experience.</p>
<p>eg the conjuction &#8220;that&#8221; is almost always pronounced [ÃƒÂ°Ã‰â„¢t], very seldom [ÃƒÂ°ÃƒÂ¦t]. [ÃƒÂ°ÃƒÂ¦t] is the demonstrative, as in &#8220;that book is mine.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Gordaen</title>
		<link>http://blog.gordaen.com/2006/10/21/common-spoken-errors-become-written-errors/#comment-277</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordaen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Oct 2006 18:37:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.gordaen.com/2006/10/21/common-spoken-errors-become-written-errors/#comment-277</guid>
		<description>By "proper" I am going back to the "strict" definition that arose from the old use of "proper" specifically to describe the gentry.  It isn't strictly accurate to pronounce "have" as a schwa.  It might be normal, but there are also regions in the US where "ain't" is still prevalent.  It is normal there, but I still would not consider it proper.  I don't think normality equates to proper.  Classically, sitting up straight would be considered proper, but more people slouch, so does that make slouching "proper?"  Is driving above the speed limit proper?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By &#8220;proper&#8221; I am going back to the &#8220;strict&#8221; definition that arose from the old use of &#8220;proper&#8221; specifically to describe the gentry.  It isn&#8217;t strictly accurate to pronounce &#8220;have&#8221; as a schwa.  It might be normal, but there are also regions in the US where &#8220;ain&#8217;t&#8221; is still prevalent.  It is normal there, but I still would not consider it proper.  I don&#8217;t think normality equates to proper.  Classically, sitting up straight would be considered proper, but more people slouch, so does that make slouching &#8220;proper?&#8221;  Is driving above the speed limit proper?</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://blog.gordaen.com/2006/10/21/common-spoken-errors-become-written-errors/#comment-266</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Oct 2006 00:21:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.gordaen.com/2006/10/21/common-spoken-errors-become-written-errors/#comment-266</guid>
		<description>I'm in Canada, and all native speakers here say [kÃŠÅ dv] or [kÃŠÅ dÃ‰â„¢]. It's normal. I don't see how it can possibly be "not the proper way to say it."

It's one thing to talk about spelling errors - of course you should probably write "could have" instead of "could of". But it's quite another thing to say that our normal way of talking is improper.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m in Canada, and all native speakers here say [kÃŠÅ dv] or [kÃŠÅ dÃ‰â„¢]. It&#8217;s normal. I don&#8217;t see how it can possibly be &#8220;not the proper way to say it.&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s one thing to talk about spelling errors - of course you should probably write &#8220;could have&#8221; instead of &#8220;could of&#8221;. But it&#8217;s quite another thing to say that our normal way of talking is improper.</p>
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